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The Walking Dead
The Walking Dead, Vol. 21: All Out War Part 2
The World we knew is gone. The world of commerce and frivolous necessity has been replaced by a world of survival and responsibility. An epidemic of apocalyptic proportions has swept the globe, causing the dead to rise and feed on the living. In a world ruled by the dead, we are forced to start living.
Alexandria has been destroyed. Can Rick rally the other communities against Negan's army?
This second part of the game-changing "All Out War" story arc collects The Walking Dead #121-126.
Alexandria has been destroyed. Can Rick rally the other communities against Negan's army?
This second part of the game-changing "All Out War" story arc collects The Walking Dead #121-126.
136 pages, Comics
First published July 23, 2014
About the author
Robert Kirkman
2,622 books6,546 followersRobert Kirkman is an American comic book writer best known for his work on The Walking Dead, Invincible for Image Comics, as well as Ultimate X-Men and Marvel Zombies for Marvel Comics. He has also collaborated with Image Comics co-founder Todd McFarlane on the series Haunt. He is one of the five partners of Image Comics, and the only one of the five who was not one of the original co-founders of that publisher.
Robert Kirkman's first comic books were self-published under his own Funk-o-Tron label. Along with childhood friend Tony Moore, Kirkman created Battle Pope which was published in late 2001. Battle Pope ran for over 2 years along with other Funk-o-Tron published books such as InkPunks and Double Take.
In July of 2002, Robert's first work for another company began, with a 4-part SuperPatriot series for Image, along with Battle Pope backup story artist Cory Walker. Robert's creator-owned projects followed shortly thereafter, including Tech Jacket, Invincible and Walking Dead.
Robert Kirkman's first comic books were self-published under his own Funk-o-Tron label. Along with childhood friend Tony Moore, Kirkman created Battle Pope which was published in late 2001. Battle Pope ran for over 2 years along with other Funk-o-Tron published books such as InkPunks and Double Take.
In July of 2002, Robert's first work for another company began, with a 4-part SuperPatriot series for Image, along with Battle Pope backup story artist Cory Walker. Robert's creator-owned projects followed shortly thereafter, including Tech Jacket, Invincible and Walking Dead.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 554 reviews
October 27, 2023
Who will survive the war? Who side is Dwight really on? Missing Shiva still? Caught of guard the Savors savaged Alexandria at the end of the last volume. What next for Rick and his allies? A virtually non-stop war continues, but will anything be left once the dust settles?
On first reading it felt all a bit underwhelming the way this drew to a close. On second-reading I better understood the creators' intention - a bit like the battle with the Night King on Game of Thrones TV show, not giving us what we want, but giving us the story they're telling? The warring pages leave little for detailed character development but they keep it all bubbling along. 8 out of 12, fine Four Star jam :)
2019, 2017 and 2015 read
On first reading it felt all a bit underwhelming the way this drew to a close. On second-reading I better understood the creators' intention - a bit like the battle with the Night King on Game of Thrones TV show, not giving us what we want, but giving us the story they're telling? The warring pages leave little for detailed character development but they keep it all bubbling along. 8 out of 12, fine Four Star jam :)
2019, 2017 and 2015 read
August 20, 2018
The war between Rick's allies and Negan's Saviours continue!
This is the twenty-first volume of “The Walking Dead", collecting the comic book issues from #121 to #126.
Creative Team:
Writer: Robert Kirkman
Illustrators: Charlie Adlard
Additional gray tones to inking: Cliff Rathburn
Chapter Twenty-One
ALL OUT WAR – PART TWO
…go get Rick. I know he’s in there. The adults need to talk.
The war of Rick’s group against Negan and his Saviors continue.
The chains of command suffered some shaking in certain communities.
And Negan still commits negligent mistakes in his war strategies and as I commented before, I can’t cope to have such big stuff villain to be turned into something so mundane and fallible.
Also, taking in account the bloody bodycount...
...in a title like The Walking Dead, I think this is the “safest” war ever!
Where nobody of importance is falling.
Wars have casualties, it’s not something any good,...
...but it’s part of it.
And when nobody that you care about dies in the middle of an “all out war”...
...well, you have trouble to regard it as something really epic.
This is the twenty-first volume of “The Walking Dead", collecting the comic book issues from #121 to #126.
Creative Team:
Writer: Robert Kirkman
Illustrators: Charlie Adlard
Additional gray tones to inking: Cliff Rathburn
Chapter Twenty-One
ALL OUT WAR – PART TWO
…go get Rick. I know he’s in there. The adults need to talk.
The war of Rick’s group against Negan and his Saviors continue.
The chains of command suffered some shaking in certain communities.
And Negan still commits negligent mistakes in his war strategies and as I commented before, I can’t cope to have such big stuff villain to be turned into something so mundane and fallible.
Also, taking in account the bloody bodycount...
...in a title like The Walking Dead, I think this is the “safest” war ever!
Where nobody of importance is falling.
Wars have casualties, it’s not something any good,...
...but it’s part of it.
And when nobody that you care about dies in the middle of an “all out war”...
...well, you have trouble to regard it as something really epic.
August 27, 2014
Disappointing. Kirkman realized too late that he'd made Negan too smart, too dangerous, and too competent for Rick, and so dumbs him down this volume. He does get one good moment: using zombie goo as a biological weapon is twisted genius. But otherwise, he withdraws when he should press on, and he lets himself get outwitted far too easily. It's like Kirkman just wanted to get this over with. Rick has a long speech about how the zombies are the real enemy and that they could do much better for themselves if they just stopped trying to fight and dominate each other. And I agree, and have agreed to at least five volumes. Does this mean that the series is about to get in a slightly new direction? I don't know. But I got the message that humans are more deadly than zombies loud and clear long ago. I wonder if Kirkman has anything else left to say.
January 7, 2015
Tensions mount as Rick's group struggles to keep Negan's army at bay.
Rick and Carl bicker.
There are killings followed by much introspection.
Wait...didn't I read this one before? Nope. It just seems like I did.
SSDD
Rick stares pensively out a window. He says, "When Negan's forces attack, and I know that they will... Rick is not being prophetic. He KNOWS they WILL ATTACK because that's all they've been doing for the LAST FIVE BOOKS NOW!
Then, Negan finally says something I agree with - "It's time for this war TO END!" You got that right, buddy.
Remember when a new Walking Dead book was something to get excited about?
My buddy Jeff promises that things really turn around in the next book.
We'll see, Kirkman. We'll see...
Rick and Carl bicker.
There are killings followed by much introspection.
Wait...didn't I read this one before? Nope. It just seems like I did.
SSDD
Rick stares pensively out a window. He says, "When Negan's forces attack, and I know that they will... Rick is not being prophetic. He KNOWS they WILL ATTACK because that's all they've been doing for the LAST FIVE BOOKS NOW!
Then, Negan finally says something I agree with - "It's time for this war TO END!" You got that right, buddy.
Remember when a new Walking Dead book was something to get excited about?
My buddy Jeff promises that things really turn around in the next book.
We'll see, Kirkman. We'll see...
January 4, 2024
Negan’s brutality smashes into Rick’s more rational approach for the final time in this thriller. Dwight turns against Negan and despite taking an arrow in the gut, Rick prevails against incredible odds. One of the best episodes in the TWD universe.
September 3, 2014
I miss the tiger.
I’m starting to like Negun. Sure he’s an evil scumbag, but he’s Kirkman’s best, most realized creation. He’s electrifying. He jumps off the page. I almost wish he’d kick Rick’s whiny, preachy ass, then reading this series wouldn’t be such a grind.
To the story itself, as Ralph Waldo Emerson (or was it Fonzie) once said,
I’m starting to like Negun. Sure he’s an evil scumbag, but he’s Kirkman’s best, most realized creation. He’s electrifying. He jumps off the page. I almost wish he’d kick Rick’s whiny, preachy ass, then reading this series wouldn’t be such a grind.
To the story itself, as Ralph Waldo Emerson (or was it Fonzie) once said,
October 30, 2016
I read volumes 18 - 21 back to back and really enjoyed this section of the story. Negan is a disgusting villain and I hated reading his scenes. But you're supposed to hate the villain so that just made me more anxious to see how things would play out.
I loved how old characters were pushed to their limits and stepped into new roles. I loved how new characters shook things up. I can't wait to see this play out on the show. It was a great end to this story arc and sets up the next. It's not about zombies anymore. I'm so interested to see where the survivors can go from here and if they will restore some semblance of civilization.
I loved how old characters were pushed to their limits and stepped into new roles. I loved how new characters shook things up. I can't wait to see this play out on the show. It was a great end to this story arc and sets up the next. It's not about zombies anymore. I'm so interested to see where the survivors can go from here and if they will restore some semblance of civilization.
Read
December 26, 2022To celebrate the series finale of the TV show, one of my favourite shows of all-time, I decided to read through the graphic novel series for the first time. You can check out my thoughts in a nearly 4-hour video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/iJkZPl2ANOU
August 6, 2014
The first half of All Out War was exciting, fast-paced and ended on a great cliffhanger – Rick and his group were on their knees, their colony bombed to hell with grenades, and Negan and the Saviors were at the door on the brink of victory. So you’d expect the second half to hit the ground running, right? Wrong! Robert Kirkman totally flubs the finale and ends up writing a tedious, contrived mess of a comic!
First of all – what the hell happened in between the last book and this one? The bad guys were outside the walls of the colony, but now they’ve backed off for no good reason and gone back home – why? They were winning! They needed one more push and they’d have won! For some reason Kirkman’s sent Negan and the Saviors back to their base so that Negan can tell everyone to dip their weapons in zombie gunk so even if they don’t kill the person they hit, they’ll end up turning into zombies anyway (which is a ruthless but decent idea, to be fair).
This gives Rick and co. the chance to make it, en masse, to Hilltop for the final stand when Negan, written up ‘til now as this brilliant tactician, should’ve really stayed where he was, outside of the gates, and ambushed the ragtag group on their journey, finishing them off. Sending him away for no good reason was totally nonsensical!
Things get momentarily exciting once the action finally restarts but Negan is once again out of character, suddenly making bad decisions that make his forces vulnerable when they don’t need to be – they have the upper hand throughout!
Then the story returns to the steady monotonous lull until Rick and Negan eventually meet face to face for a final confrontation. But what should be an amazing showdown becomes a total wash. This new, stupid Negan is feebly outwitted by Rick in a way that he wouldn’t have been in earlier books. It was simply a ridiculous way to end All Out War. Though I did like that there was a twist to Negan’s fate which sets up some potentially fun future storylines – that is unless Kirkman screws those up too!
I fly through some Walking Dead books but unfortunately this one was one of those where I kept putting it down and doing anything else instead. I got through it after three sittings but what should’ve been an edge-of-the-seat read was mostly full of yawns. All Out War Part 2 is a disappointing and clumsy conclusion to the Negan story arc.
First of all – what the hell happened in between the last book and this one? The bad guys were outside the walls of the colony, but now they’ve backed off for no good reason and gone back home – why? They were winning! They needed one more push and they’d have won! For some reason Kirkman’s sent Negan and the Saviors back to their base so that Negan can tell everyone to dip their weapons in zombie gunk so even if they don’t kill the person they hit, they’ll end up turning into zombies anyway (which is a ruthless but decent idea, to be fair).
This gives Rick and co. the chance to make it, en masse, to Hilltop for the final stand when Negan, written up ‘til now as this brilliant tactician, should’ve really stayed where he was, outside of the gates, and ambushed the ragtag group on their journey, finishing them off. Sending him away for no good reason was totally nonsensical!
Things get momentarily exciting once the action finally restarts but Negan is once again out of character, suddenly making bad decisions that make his forces vulnerable when they don’t need to be – they have the upper hand throughout!
Then the story returns to the steady monotonous lull until Rick and Negan eventually meet face to face for a final confrontation. But what should be an amazing showdown becomes a total wash. This new, stupid Negan is feebly outwitted by Rick in a way that he wouldn’t have been in earlier books. It was simply a ridiculous way to end All Out War. Though I did like that there was a twist to Negan’s fate which sets up some potentially fun future storylines – that is unless Kirkman screws those up too!
I fly through some Walking Dead books but unfortunately this one was one of those where I kept putting it down and doing anything else instead. I got through it after three sittings but what should’ve been an edge-of-the-seat read was mostly full of yawns. All Out War Part 2 is a disappointing and clumsy conclusion to the Negan story arc.
February 19, 2016
A little better than Part 1, it really had some wicked stuff going on. But in the end, it left me a little cold. The climax was pretty intense, but a let down in some ways for all that.....
December 8, 2019
First Read: July 22nd 2016
Re-Read: December 8th 2019
In Rick Grimes We Trust
actual rating: 3.5
the war continues to rage on the battle between Alexandria, The Hilltop and The Kingdom vs the Saviours is coming to the end and of course Negan and the saviours lose this battle after putting one hell of fight but Rick's plan once again triumphs over everything else as the three communities win.
Alexandria is destroyed from the bombing in part one of all out war and it picks right up where part one ended with rick waking up after being knocked out for about an hour. Denise dies in this issue after being bit by a walker in the pervious issue, i must admit i will miss this character a lot!. other than Denise dying in this issue there were no major character deaths in this issue which i was happy about but there were a couple of near misses that i'm glad didn't turn out to be worse.
Rick and Carl once again just bickered throughout the whole issue, i know they have a strained relationship but all they have seemed to do in the past few issues is argue with each other and not focus on what's really going on. I hope they get separated from each other for a bit before they end up killing each other.
Negan has been finally taken down but a funny twist rick doesn't kill him instead wants to lock him up in the Alexandria jail to rot for the rest of his life, i kind of guess thats a harsh punishment i think the easier way would be to just kill him.
I feel like all the communities are divided now since the war is now over but i think there will be some moving up when i read issue 22 i will have to read to find out
Re-Read: December 8th 2019
In Rick Grimes We Trust
actual rating: 3.5
the war continues to rage on the battle between Alexandria, The Hilltop and The Kingdom vs the Saviours is coming to the end and of course Negan and the saviours lose this battle after putting one hell of fight but Rick's plan once again triumphs over everything else as the three communities win.
Alexandria is destroyed from the bombing in part one of all out war and it picks right up where part one ended with rick waking up after being knocked out for about an hour. Denise dies in this issue after being bit by a walker in the pervious issue, i must admit i will miss this character a lot!. other than Denise dying in this issue there were no major character deaths in this issue which i was happy about but there were a couple of near misses that i'm glad didn't turn out to be worse.
Rick and Carl once again just bickered throughout the whole issue, i know they have a strained relationship but all they have seemed to do in the past few issues is argue with each other and not focus on what's really going on. I hope they get separated from each other for a bit before they end up killing each other.
Negan has been finally taken down but a funny twist rick doesn't kill him instead wants to lock him up in the Alexandria jail to rot for the rest of his life, i kind of guess thats a harsh punishment i think the easier way would be to just kill him.
I feel like all the communities are divided now since the war is now over but i think there will be some moving up when i read issue 22 i will have to read to find out
January 4, 2016
Hmmm... Well that's interesting. Did we just switch tyrants?
This was... A rather disappointing ending to war. I wanted to see hellfire raining from the sky and for certain deaths to be forever. But alas, Kirkman never does things according to my plans. Like he is in charge or something.
Anyway, I wished for more carnage because I'm a terrible person, but in the end, things kinda went ok. I think that Rick might regret how things went down though. We shall see. I can't say I'm all that upset about certain people still breathing. Those kinds of people make life interesting.
This was... A rather disappointing ending to war. I wanted to see hellfire raining from the sky and for certain deaths to be forever. But alas, Kirkman never does things according to my plans. Like he is in charge or something.
Anyway, I wished for more carnage because I'm a terrible person, but in the end, things kinda went ok. I think that Rick might regret how things went down though. We shall see. I can't say I'm all that upset about certain people still breathing. Those kinds of people make life interesting.
September 30, 2014
Bullet Review:
And THAT'S the route Kirkman takes to wrap up the Negan storyline?!?! What the everlasting *insert Negan's favorite word here*?!!!
And THAT'S the route Kirkman takes to wrap up the Negan storyline?!?! What the everlasting *insert Negan's favorite word here*?!!!
August 27, 2019
I found the ending unlikely...
January 7, 2017
Interesting turn of events. Very dialogue-heavy volume, and we all know how bad Kirkman is at writing those. I also would rather see Negan die, because keeping him alive will most definitely backfire soon, and I absolutely hate the character. Remember how I said he was fun? Well, he's not anymore. He just gives long and annoying speeches now, so he's basically Rick, only talks to his balls more. Sigh. Moving on...
March 31, 2017
All Out War ends with a difficult decision that will almost certainly bear consequences for the group in the future.
August 23, 2015
Oh lord below, just let me survive the slog through this book so I can eventually get to the next one (which Goodreads people *promise* me is good - or at least tolerable). Maybe less rape, dick-talk from Negan and hand-wringing from the generic fools who populate this world.
Seriously, you've survived *years* among the walkers, biters and moaners, and you *still* don't have sense enough to keep your head down and one eye over your shoulder EVERY DAMNED WAKING MOMENT? You *deserve* to die, Stupid Nameless Background Character #473 - there is no zombie-apocalypse earth on which you earned the right to eat the last of the organic carrots.
There are plenty of Dramatic Moments of Culmination - at least, that’s the way they’re played, even though I couldn’t be bothered to even try to remember who any of these extras are. Deathbed hand-wringing, stand-up speechifying, meaningful glares and sidelong glances…it’s all sturm und drang with no cliff walls from which to echo balefully.
The inevitable stand-off and stand-down occurs (Because Rick), and then this book just takes a leap of writer’s ego and terror that I CANNOT condone:
Here’s the deal: murderous pieces of shit need to die, to preserve the herd. You leave a diseased fish in the tank, they all gonna perish. Spoiled apple, there goes the barrel o’ monkeys. Ripe banana? Separate it from the others, lest you have ten pounds of black cigars on your hands.
What. The. Fuck. Does Kirkman think he’s pulling, keeping that turd in play? There is only one reason to keep a character like that - not because the readers like him, or he’s necessary for some dramatic outcome later on. No, he’s alive only because Kirkman is too lazy to come up with a *novel* threat to the humans. Every other scene where this kind of outcome is threatened, we get rid of the rot. This dude lives so that Kirkman can pull him out later and get a cheap jump scare, and some lazy drama.
Fuuuuuck that. I see you coming Kirkman, and I will continue to read your shitty books for free whenever they show up at the library shelves. (Oh sure, I’ll keep reading this - it’s a sport for me to crap on Kirkman twice a year. Like one of my favourite holidays.)
Seriously, you've survived *years* among the walkers, biters and moaners, and you *still* don't have sense enough to keep your head down and one eye over your shoulder EVERY DAMNED WAKING MOMENT? You *deserve* to die, Stupid Nameless Background Character #473 - there is no zombie-apocalypse earth on which you earned the right to eat the last of the organic carrots.
There are plenty of Dramatic Moments of Culmination - at least, that’s the way they’re played, even though I couldn’t be bothered to even try to remember who any of these extras are. Deathbed hand-wringing, stand-up speechifying, meaningful glares and sidelong glances…it’s all sturm und drang with no cliff walls from which to echo balefully.
The inevitable stand-off and stand-down occurs (Because Rick), and then this book just takes a leap of writer’s ego and terror that I CANNOT condone:
Here’s the deal: murderous pieces of shit need to die, to preserve the herd. You leave a diseased fish in the tank, they all gonna perish. Spoiled apple, there goes the barrel o’ monkeys. Ripe banana? Separate it from the others, lest you have ten pounds of black cigars on your hands.
What. The. Fuck. Does Kirkman think he’s pulling, keeping that turd in play? There is only one reason to keep a character like that - not because the readers like him, or he’s necessary for some dramatic outcome later on. No, he’s alive only because Kirkman is too lazy to come up with a *novel* threat to the humans. Every other scene where this kind of outcome is threatened, we get rid of the rot. This dude lives so that Kirkman can pull him out later and get a cheap jump scare, and some lazy drama.
Fuuuuuck that. I see you coming Kirkman, and I will continue to read your shitty books for free whenever they show up at the library shelves. (Oh sure, I’ll keep reading this - it’s a sport for me to crap on Kirkman twice a year. Like one of my favourite holidays.)
April 28, 2016
**No spoilers**
While it was still a good volume, the ending was kind of anticlimactic. There also wasn't any deaths that particularly affected me. Lastly, a couple of the scenes just seemed a bit unnecessary right now, but it might just be to give a hint as to what will happen in the time jump between this volume and the next.
While it was still a good volume, the ending was kind of anticlimactic. There also wasn't any deaths that particularly affected me. Lastly, a couple of the scenes just seemed a bit unnecessary right now, but it might just be to give a hint as to what will happen in the time jump between this volume and the next.
September 11, 2014
Forgive me for delving into the territory of criticizing the actions of characters. I was watching American Horror Story and thinking how it's such a human thing, to critique the behavior of a character in a bizarre, desperate situation.
Can I ask a question about that show? Or really, a question about any show or movie with a haunted house?
HOW MUCH BAD SHIT HAS TO HAPPEN BEFORE YOU SAY FUCK IT AND MOVE!?
I get it. A mortgage is a big expense, a grown-up responsibility. But when I start hallucinating, possibly murdering people, and seeing the devil, it's time for me to move. I don't give a shit what this does to my financial life. You want to call the police, have them come get me? Fine. I'll be in a studio apartment somewhere. It just drives me nuts. What financial consequence is applicable in the face of abject terror? Hell, people make worse money decisions just based on not thinking at all. Every Hummer you see on the road, that's a $30k decision, at least. So how hard is it, with legitimate reason, to just move the hell out?
Okay, that aside, we're now at the end of All Out War Part 2. If you haven't read it, some spoiling will go down. Be aware.
The book ends and Negan has been captured. Which is good. About half way through, I was ready to be done with Negan. Knowing what we know as readers, there was no way out of this for him.
The thing is, the guy survives, and Rick INSISTS that they keep him alive, ending the book with a speech about how Negan will suffer when he sees how much he was holding the world back with his stupidity and selfishness.
And this makes me crazy.
Now, I recognize that there's a possibility that Rick is doing this because he sees this as the ultimate torture for Negan, which is obviously misguided, and if I wanted to believe that he was truly trying to torture Negan, I can't see much reason to not, I don't know, cut off his hands and feet?
After all the crap that's happened to the characters in this book, after all the nonsense and times they've been betrayed, by people they trusted at first, how can they just leave him in a back room somewhere? I just don't understand how characters can go on, knowing they've captured this guy and that his one occupation is to escape and fuck shit up.
Which is me telling fictional characters what to do. Which never works. If they don't go in the basement, then there's not story. BUT, I think the writing should give the character SOME reason to go in that basement. Because when the only argument in favor of going in the basement is "If they didn't, there wouldn't be a show" then the narrative is flawed. The characters are making decisions to prop the narrative, not because they are logical decisions for those characters.
Anyway, this situation also brings me to an ethical argument that I seen often in comics and would like to address:
"If we kill him, we're no better than he is."
I kinda think, in the context of comics, this is a tired and false statement.
Let's look at the very specific case here in the Walking Dead. You've got Rick, who can be a bit rough, but overall is doing his best and making the best possible decisions to keep the largest number of people alive and protect the people who don't protect themselves. Although his choices are sometimes wrong, sometimes violent, and sometimes questionable, he makes his decisions based on what he thinks is right for the majority of people, perhaps with some bias towards the personal safety of those he cares about most.
Then you have Negan. Who seems to care about absolutely no one but himself. He uses violence to make sure that things continue the way he wants, and although he's managed to hold things together for a long time, it's purely as a result of the fear he instills in his followers.
The proof of which style is effective comes in this volume. Although Rick's small army is beaten, they are only made more certain that they have to continue fighting. Negan's army, conversely, wins the first battles, but the moment they have the opportunity to turn on him, they take it.
What makes Negan an interesting character is that he's unquestioningly a product of the environment, which is apocalyptic. He's very fatalistic, and although he says he doesn't prefer to use violence, he doesn't seem to have a problem doing so when he deems it necessary. He's a young guy who, at this point in the Walking Dead chronology, might have spent the majority of his life in a post-zombie world. He's very possibly the first of many like him. And, most relevant to the story, he's Carl's personal Ghost of Christmas Future, showing where a boy who lives through nothing but tragedy and hardship might find solace only in being harder than the world around him.
Negan, unlike a lot of the characters we've seen before, seems to have little to no illusion about the good old days, about the world returning to normalcy. Which is probably his greatest strength. Rather than trying to change the chaos, he thrives within it.
If the zombie thing never happened, what would Negan be like? Hard to say, although it seems likely that he'd be a high school dick who eventually mellows after a struggle in the post-school world where bullying doesn't gain a person much.
That's my case for Negan, that he's a product of his environment. That his path was, to a certain extent, inevitable and out of his control.
In our world, the real world, that makes things complicated. A murderer, a real bastard of one, might be on a path, and there is going to be some debate as to whether or not some intervention might change things. What can we do to make this right, and can we make him see the error of his ways?
In the real world, that's a debate worth having. Within this comic, however, I don't think it is.
The reason being, Rick cannot reasonably keep everyone else safe from Negan during the time required for that change in ideology to happen. More than that, he's not capable of creating any sort of treatment plan or course. Which is why I think, in this fictional, hypothetical case, it's okay to end his life. Not as an act of revenge, not because you want what he has, but because you can reasonably expect that in doing so, you will keep someone else safe.
Let's look at Batman. This is where you see the argument a lot. I can't kill the Joker because then I'd be no better than him, and I took an oath.
The counter argument is always, Okay, but the blood of everyone else he kills is on your hands.
Batman seems to accept that argument as true, even though it's clearly not. If a lifeguard saves the life of a drowning child, and that child grows up to be a serial killer, is that blood on the lifeguard's hands? Obviously not as the lifeguard's lot is to save people regardless of who they are and the content of their current or future character. If a doctor saves the life of a shooting victim, even if he knows for a fact that this victim is a murderer, is he to blame for that person's future actions? Again, no. Because his job, as part of the system, is to save lives. And additionally, that one doctor can't take it upon himself. Who called the ambulance? Who loaded the killer in the back? Any of those people could have also prevented the killer's revival by not acting, so it's impossible to blame any one person. In order to avoid this sort of question, doctors take an oath to help anyone and everyone. It's their job to heal, someone else's job to seek justice or decide what should become of the person.
So I can't agree with the sentiment that Batman is responsible for the continued murders committed by the Joker. Even if he can reasonably expect the murders to continue, we can't reasonably expect that a costumed vigilante, who operates by his own set of rules and morals 100% of the time, which is precisely why he's a costumed vigilante, will kill someone because it's what would be most convenient for everyone else and create what we've decided is the best protection against future crimes.
But, that still doesn't answer the question, if Batman chose to kill the Joker, does that make him as bad.
Again, I say No.
While the mechanical action of killing is the same in both cases, it's the motive that makes them very, very different. And I think this is where the confusion lives. In some cases, the motive is subordinate to the action. Our neighbor used to mow part of our lawn, and he did it because he was a jerk who was really particular about his lawn. He couldn't stand the incongruity that resulted if we each did our own patch, so he did ours for us. Dick motive, but as far as I was concerned, fine. Or maybe someone creates an artificial heart valve that works perfectly, but he does so to make cash as opposed to improving lives. Hey, sounds like kind of an ass, but you know what? We still have an improved heart valve, so I'm cool with it.
But there are other times when the motive overrides the action. If I bought flowers for my girlfriend because I wanted to be nice, that would be a good thing. If I bought flowers for my girlfriend because I'd cheated on her the night before and felt shitty, if I bought her flowers to relieve myself of some guilt, it doesn't really mean the same thing, does it? In this case, the motive is more important.
The Joker's motive behind killing is to cause pain and chaos. Batman's motive, IF he killed the Joker, would be to stop this one specific man's spreading of pain and chaos. The motives could not be more opposite. Stop pain, cause pain.
My opinion? If Batman doesn't want to kill the Joker, he should just say so. And he can explain it by saying, "Why? Because fuck you, that's why." Batman is nobody's hired killer. Hell, he doesn't get paid at all, which is great for him because it means his only master is himself. He can decide to do whatever the hell he wants, just so long as it doesn't go against his personal moral code, which is obviously quite different from the rest of us anyway.
Can I ask a question about that show? Or really, a question about any show or movie with a haunted house?
HOW MUCH BAD SHIT HAS TO HAPPEN BEFORE YOU SAY FUCK IT AND MOVE!?
I get it. A mortgage is a big expense, a grown-up responsibility. But when I start hallucinating, possibly murdering people, and seeing the devil, it's time for me to move. I don't give a shit what this does to my financial life. You want to call the police, have them come get me? Fine. I'll be in a studio apartment somewhere. It just drives me nuts. What financial consequence is applicable in the face of abject terror? Hell, people make worse money decisions just based on not thinking at all. Every Hummer you see on the road, that's a $30k decision, at least. So how hard is it, with legitimate reason, to just move the hell out?
Okay, that aside, we're now at the end of All Out War Part 2. If you haven't read it, some spoiling will go down. Be aware.
The book ends and Negan has been captured. Which is good. About half way through, I was ready to be done with Negan. Knowing what we know as readers, there was no way out of this for him.
The thing is, the guy survives, and Rick INSISTS that they keep him alive, ending the book with a speech about how Negan will suffer when he sees how much he was holding the world back with his stupidity and selfishness.
And this makes me crazy.
Now, I recognize that there's a possibility that Rick is doing this because he sees this as the ultimate torture for Negan, which is obviously misguided, and if I wanted to believe that he was truly trying to torture Negan, I can't see much reason to not, I don't know, cut off his hands and feet?
After all the crap that's happened to the characters in this book, after all the nonsense and times they've been betrayed, by people they trusted at first, how can they just leave him in a back room somewhere? I just don't understand how characters can go on, knowing they've captured this guy and that his one occupation is to escape and fuck shit up.
Which is me telling fictional characters what to do. Which never works. If they don't go in the basement, then there's not story. BUT, I think the writing should give the character SOME reason to go in that basement. Because when the only argument in favor of going in the basement is "If they didn't, there wouldn't be a show" then the narrative is flawed. The characters are making decisions to prop the narrative, not because they are logical decisions for those characters.
Anyway, this situation also brings me to an ethical argument that I seen often in comics and would like to address:
"If we kill him, we're no better than he is."
I kinda think, in the context of comics, this is a tired and false statement.
Let's look at the very specific case here in the Walking Dead. You've got Rick, who can be a bit rough, but overall is doing his best and making the best possible decisions to keep the largest number of people alive and protect the people who don't protect themselves. Although his choices are sometimes wrong, sometimes violent, and sometimes questionable, he makes his decisions based on what he thinks is right for the majority of people, perhaps with some bias towards the personal safety of those he cares about most.
Then you have Negan. Who seems to care about absolutely no one but himself. He uses violence to make sure that things continue the way he wants, and although he's managed to hold things together for a long time, it's purely as a result of the fear he instills in his followers.
The proof of which style is effective comes in this volume. Although Rick's small army is beaten, they are only made more certain that they have to continue fighting. Negan's army, conversely, wins the first battles, but the moment they have the opportunity to turn on him, they take it.
What makes Negan an interesting character is that he's unquestioningly a product of the environment, which is apocalyptic. He's very fatalistic, and although he says he doesn't prefer to use violence, he doesn't seem to have a problem doing so when he deems it necessary. He's a young guy who, at this point in the Walking Dead chronology, might have spent the majority of his life in a post-zombie world. He's very possibly the first of many like him. And, most relevant to the story, he's Carl's personal Ghost of Christmas Future, showing where a boy who lives through nothing but tragedy and hardship might find solace only in being harder than the world around him.
Negan, unlike a lot of the characters we've seen before, seems to have little to no illusion about the good old days, about the world returning to normalcy. Which is probably his greatest strength. Rather than trying to change the chaos, he thrives within it.
If the zombie thing never happened, what would Negan be like? Hard to say, although it seems likely that he'd be a high school dick who eventually mellows after a struggle in the post-school world where bullying doesn't gain a person much.
That's my case for Negan, that he's a product of his environment. That his path was, to a certain extent, inevitable and out of his control.
In our world, the real world, that makes things complicated. A murderer, a real bastard of one, might be on a path, and there is going to be some debate as to whether or not some intervention might change things. What can we do to make this right, and can we make him see the error of his ways?
In the real world, that's a debate worth having. Within this comic, however, I don't think it is.
The reason being, Rick cannot reasonably keep everyone else safe from Negan during the time required for that change in ideology to happen. More than that, he's not capable of creating any sort of treatment plan or course. Which is why I think, in this fictional, hypothetical case, it's okay to end his life. Not as an act of revenge, not because you want what he has, but because you can reasonably expect that in doing so, you will keep someone else safe.
Let's look at Batman. This is where you see the argument a lot. I can't kill the Joker because then I'd be no better than him, and I took an oath.
The counter argument is always, Okay, but the blood of everyone else he kills is on your hands.
Batman seems to accept that argument as true, even though it's clearly not. If a lifeguard saves the life of a drowning child, and that child grows up to be a serial killer, is that blood on the lifeguard's hands? Obviously not as the lifeguard's lot is to save people regardless of who they are and the content of their current or future character. If a doctor saves the life of a shooting victim, even if he knows for a fact that this victim is a murderer, is he to blame for that person's future actions? Again, no. Because his job, as part of the system, is to save lives. And additionally, that one doctor can't take it upon himself. Who called the ambulance? Who loaded the killer in the back? Any of those people could have also prevented the killer's revival by not acting, so it's impossible to blame any one person. In order to avoid this sort of question, doctors take an oath to help anyone and everyone. It's their job to heal, someone else's job to seek justice or decide what should become of the person.
So I can't agree with the sentiment that Batman is responsible for the continued murders committed by the Joker. Even if he can reasonably expect the murders to continue, we can't reasonably expect that a costumed vigilante, who operates by his own set of rules and morals 100% of the time, which is precisely why he's a costumed vigilante, will kill someone because it's what would be most convenient for everyone else and create what we've decided is the best protection against future crimes.
But, that still doesn't answer the question, if Batman chose to kill the Joker, does that make him as bad.
Again, I say No.
While the mechanical action of killing is the same in both cases, it's the motive that makes them very, very different. And I think this is where the confusion lives. In some cases, the motive is subordinate to the action. Our neighbor used to mow part of our lawn, and he did it because he was a jerk who was really particular about his lawn. He couldn't stand the incongruity that resulted if we each did our own patch, so he did ours for us. Dick motive, but as far as I was concerned, fine. Or maybe someone creates an artificial heart valve that works perfectly, but he does so to make cash as opposed to improving lives. Hey, sounds like kind of an ass, but you know what? We still have an improved heart valve, so I'm cool with it.
But there are other times when the motive overrides the action. If I bought flowers for my girlfriend because I wanted to be nice, that would be a good thing. If I bought flowers for my girlfriend because I'd cheated on her the night before and felt shitty, if I bought her flowers to relieve myself of some guilt, it doesn't really mean the same thing, does it? In this case, the motive is more important.
The Joker's motive behind killing is to cause pain and chaos. Batman's motive, IF he killed the Joker, would be to stop this one specific man's spreading of pain and chaos. The motives could not be more opposite. Stop pain, cause pain.
My opinion? If Batman doesn't want to kill the Joker, he should just say so. And he can explain it by saying, "Why? Because fuck you, that's why." Batman is nobody's hired killer. Hell, he doesn't get paid at all, which is great for him because it means his only master is himself. He can decide to do whatever the hell he wants, just so long as it doesn't go against his personal moral code, which is obviously quite different from the rest of us anyway.
August 8, 2022
The quiet before the storm…
Our bunch of heroes draw back and consolidate in the Hilltop and prepare… They don‘t have to wait long for Negan to show up. Kaboom, boss fight!
Motherfuck, there is a lot of god damn swearing in this fucking thing. I don‘t generally mind, but even I think that this is a bit over the top.
This volume collects The Walking Dead #121-126.
This is now all past the point where I stopped watching the TV series. I am tempted to go back and pick it up again in… season 6, I think.
And now what? Before I delve into A New Beginning, I will skim through The Walking Dead: All Out War AP Edition:
“This special Artist Proof edition collects the monumental ALL OUT WAR story arc all in one volume as seen through artist CHARLIE ADLARD's raw pencils. Read the story in a whole new way, never before collected together in one single volume.“
Our bunch of heroes draw back and consolidate in the Hilltop and prepare… They don‘t have to wait long for Negan to show up. Kaboom, boss fight!
Motherfuck, there is a lot of god damn swearing in this fucking thing. I don‘t generally mind, but even I think that this is a bit over the top.
This volume collects The Walking Dead #121-126.
This is now all past the point where I stopped watching the TV series. I am tempted to go back and pick it up again in… season 6, I think.
And now what? Before I delve into A New Beginning, I will skim through The Walking Dead: All Out War AP Edition:
“This special Artist Proof edition collects the monumental ALL OUT WAR story arc all in one volume as seen through artist CHARLIE ADLARD's raw pencils. Read the story in a whole new way, never before collected together in one single volume.“
August 20, 2022
A bit chaotic for my liking. The lead up to Negan and Rick's dialogue was intense and action-packed, but lately I've lost interest in the comics.
And as for Negan's swearing and f-bombs, it just makes his character tacky and immature (It took me by surprise when he started dropping the f-word every sentence lol).
I hope the whisperers and their plot line pique my interest again.
And as for Negan's swearing and f-bombs, it just makes his character tacky and immature (It took me by surprise when he started dropping the f-word every sentence lol).
I hope the whisperers and their plot line pique my interest again.
June 30, 2016
I did not see that ending coming at all. I have so many questions about what's next for this series. We don't even know if the war is 100% over. Fuck, this volume was so incredible.
October 21, 2018
So glad this wasn't as drawn out as it was on the TV show. Excited to see what's next for TWD universe!
June 11, 2017
castles fall from the inside, plus when all the opponent forces are united for the common goal. The end of an era is near!
January 10, 2017
I had some problems when I started it... I don't really know why.
About halfway thru the action picked up and I devoured the rest of it. I'm very curious to see what will happen next.
About halfway thru the action picked up and I devoured the rest of it. I'm very curious to see what will happen next.
November 3, 2014
*Respira muy lentamente*
¡¿Qué carajos fue eso, Kirkman?!
Necesito una explicación, cualquier cosa que me ayude a entender la razón de que el autor se esté contradiciendo a sí mismo. Después de todo el baño de sangre y todas las víctimas que han caído por la guerra entre Rick y Negan, llega Kirkman a "firmar" un acuerdo de "paz" entre ambos personajes. ¿Una tregua? ¿Trabajar unidos, como gente civilizada? ¡¿QUÉ DEMONIOS PASÓ AQUÍ?! Pensé que este tomo terminaría con la muerte de Negan; esperaba que así fuese. Y justo cuando estaba emocionada y conjeturando sobre quién tendría el honor de asesinar/masacrar almotherfucker, me entero de que Rick ha entrado en razón y decide acabar con la guerra, para así trabajar junto a Negan y su gente, y hacer del mundo un lugar mejor.
¿Qué sigue?, ¿unicornios voladores que defecan brillantina?
Este tomo me recordó mucho al final de la saga Crepúsculo cuando dos bandos van a enfrentarse (no recuerdo los nombres y, para ser honesta, tampoco me importa) en una batalla épica. Pero al final no pasa nada. No pelean, nadie muere: mucho ruido y pocas nueces. Y como diría Negan:
Creo que a Kirkman se le ha ido de las manos el personaje de Negan, porque lo creó para que fuese mucho más listo que Rick. Y, cuando es evidente que el personaje principal va a quedar mal, él decide bajar el nivel de inteligencia de Negan, para hacerlo menos listo que Rick y para éste poder derrotarlo. Rick es bastante estúpido si cree que dejar a Negan vivir solucionará todos los problemas.
Las expectativas que mantenía en esta entrega de la serie no han sido alcanzadas. Estoy bastante decepcionada. Y molesta. Furiosa con Rick y los otros personajes que deciden seguir sus estúpidas ideas. No creo que la idea de Rick vaya a funcionar. Siempre le da esperanza, pero al final nada se concreta y el grupo queda en las mismas. Amanecerá y veremos.
¡¿Qué carajos fue eso, Kirkman?!
Necesito una explicación, cualquier cosa que me ayude a entender la razón de que el autor se esté contradiciendo a sí mismo. Después de todo el baño de sangre y todas las víctimas que han caído por la guerra entre Rick y Negan, llega Kirkman a "firmar" un acuerdo de "paz" entre ambos personajes. ¿Una tregua? ¿Trabajar unidos, como gente civilizada? ¡¿QUÉ DEMONIOS PASÓ AQUÍ?! Pensé que este tomo terminaría con la muerte de Negan; esperaba que así fuese. Y justo cuando estaba emocionada y conjeturando sobre quién tendría el honor de asesinar/masacrar al
¿Qué sigue?, ¿unicornios voladores que defecan brillantina?
Este tomo me recordó mucho al final de la saga Crepúsculo cuando dos bandos van a enfrentarse (no recuerdo los nombres y, para ser honesta, tampoco me importa) en una batalla épica. Pero al final no pasa nada. No pelean, nadie muere: mucho ruido y pocas nueces. Y como diría Negan:
Creo que a Kirkman se le ha ido de las manos el personaje de Negan, porque lo creó para que fuese mucho más listo que Rick. Y, cuando es evidente que el personaje principal va a quedar mal, él decide bajar el nivel de inteligencia de Negan, para hacerlo menos listo que Rick y para éste poder derrotarlo. Rick es bastante estúpido si cree que dejar a Negan vivir solucionará todos los problemas.
Las expectativas que mantenía en esta entrega de la serie no han sido alcanzadas. Estoy bastante decepcionada. Y molesta. Furiosa con Rick y los otros personajes que deciden seguir sus estúpidas ideas. No creo que la idea de Rick vaya a funcionar. Siempre le da esperanza, pero al final nada se concreta y el grupo queda en las mismas. Amanecerá y veremos.
April 30, 2014
If you'd have asked me before this started, I would have guessed this ending differently. So it's cool that it surprised me a little, it's been too long since a Walking Dead comic did that to any effect. I also think Adlards artwork looks a lot better with Gaudiano on inks. If he wants to keep up the monthly schedule and have an uninterrupted run, there's no shame in having an inker improve your work. You can actually take a recent issue (before Gaudiano came on) and compare it with one of his early issues, and clearly see it's not as good.
Also, I'm actually interested/almost excited to see what comes NEXT. I've not read up anything about it, to avoid spoilers, but it looks like we might be following some new characters for a little while? (Probably the characters who are set to appear in the TV show spin off?). So that should give the comic a fresh take for a bit.
Also, I'm actually interested/almost excited to see what comes NEXT. I've not read up anything about it, to avoid spoilers, but it looks like we might be following some new characters for a little while? (Probably the characters who are set to appear in the TV show spin off?). So that should give the comic a fresh take for a bit.
September 6, 2014
I read this last night to make myself put down The Secret Place since I am really, really trying not to blow through that too quickly. So this succeeded on some level, since it made me leave Tana French alone for an hour. I don't quite know what else to say; the character that I want to die is still not dead? I like the way Carl is being drawn now as an older kid, but when he doesn't have his hat on I can't really tell the difference between him & the (ostensibly pregnant) Maggie? I guess don't want to more closely examine the reasons that I keep reading these even though I no longer care for them. I tend to look away from accidents when I pass them rather then at them, so that adage doesn't apply. I suppose I like Nagen & enough to keep on.
February 25, 2018
I was eager to read this volume before the show comes back on the air for the back half of the 8th season. I thought this was action packed and liked how the group takes on the Saviors. I wish the writers of the show would of stuck closer to this plot instead of where they chose to take it. In fact, I think a certain writer of the show is full of shit! This could of totally worked!! Can't wait to continue with these.
February 19, 2020
Awwww yiss! This is why I love The Walking Dead. The last two volumes have been about grit and grime and survival and post-apocalyptic-awesome-sauce. I actually had a hard time remembering some of the details of the show reading through this. I may need to watch through the season again at some point in the near future.
Spoilers ahead.
.
.
.
Denise dies from a bite after performing life-saving surgery on Heath. Michonne puts her down.
Eugene and his Bullet Makers Extraordinaire are captured by Negan. Contrary to the show (at least how it started out), Eugene has some serious kahones and stands up to Negan through some explicitly violent threats to his health. When Negan leaves, Dwight shares his loyalties with Eugene to put him at ease and promises he will help him escape. He's overheard by one of Negan's other men who shocks Dwight by telling him he wants to join him- and he thinks others will too.
Ezekiel finds his gumption again. Heath mourns Denise and his leg.
The groups congregate in one location and strategize to take down the Saviors. Negan poisons their weapons with zombie blood.
The Saviors attack and Dwight shoots Rick to keep Negan thinking he's on his side. Unbeknownst to Negan, Dwight shoots Rick with a clean arrow rather than a poisoned one. I also realized they drew a bit of material for Darryl's character from Dwight, crossbow and all.
Michonne's group flanks Negan's and turn the tude of the fight, but the next morning people start to turn who were infected by the poisoned weapons.
Carl comforts a grieving boy and finally starts to show he has some humanity left.
Negan shows up at Hilltop again and challenges their new leader, assuming Rick is dead. Rick shocks him by showing up. He then gives a rousing speech to Negan as to how they can work together to change the world for the better. Negan has an epiphany and agrees to try a new way...right up until Rick stabs him in the neck. Negan returns the favor and breaks Rick's leg. A brawl breaks out and Dwight saves Ezekiel's life, proving which side he's on. In the show, Dwight disappeared into no-man's-land looking for his wife. But here, he appears to take over as the leader for the Saviors calling them to stand down and follow him. Also, the gimmick with the bad bullets they played out in the show didn't happen in the books.
Rick decides to keep Negan alive to show they are better than him. Carl tries to kill him anyways, but Rick stops him and talks him into sparing him.
I think the dynamic with Carl and Negan worked better in the books- Carl hated Negan and Rick helped him find his way. Another alternative is the show should have changed the way Rick interacted with Negan at the end of their war. Somehow, the show made Negan almost too likeable and too drawn to Carl, wanting ro respect his legacy more than Rick did. So when Carl asked them for peace, it almost played out like Rick disrespected his son's wishes in the way he handled Negan's emotions. Personally, I felt like that piece of things could have been done better.
That said, I assume they had to write Carl out of the show because Chandler Riggs wanted to be done. The writers may have been able to come up with a better way to make his exit more graceful in the aftermath of Rick and Negan's relationship.
I'd rate this book an R for swearing, violence and gore, and adult content.
Spoilers ahead.
.
.
.
Denise dies from a bite after performing life-saving surgery on Heath. Michonne puts her down.
Eugene and his Bullet Makers Extraordinaire are captured by Negan. Contrary to the show (at least how it started out), Eugene has some serious kahones and stands up to Negan through some explicitly violent threats to his health. When Negan leaves, Dwight shares his loyalties with Eugene to put him at ease and promises he will help him escape. He's overheard by one of Negan's other men who shocks Dwight by telling him he wants to join him- and he thinks others will too.
Ezekiel finds his gumption again. Heath mourns Denise and his leg.
The groups congregate in one location and strategize to take down the Saviors. Negan poisons their weapons with zombie blood.
The Saviors attack and Dwight shoots Rick to keep Negan thinking he's on his side. Unbeknownst to Negan, Dwight shoots Rick with a clean arrow rather than a poisoned one. I also realized they drew a bit of material for Darryl's character from Dwight, crossbow and all.
Michonne's group flanks Negan's and turn the tude of the fight, but the next morning people start to turn who were infected by the poisoned weapons.
Carl comforts a grieving boy and finally starts to show he has some humanity left.
Negan shows up at Hilltop again and challenges their new leader, assuming Rick is dead. Rick shocks him by showing up. He then gives a rousing speech to Negan as to how they can work together to change the world for the better. Negan has an epiphany and agrees to try a new way...right up until Rick stabs him in the neck. Negan returns the favor and breaks Rick's leg. A brawl breaks out and Dwight saves Ezekiel's life, proving which side he's on. In the show, Dwight disappeared into no-man's-land looking for his wife. But here, he appears to take over as the leader for the Saviors calling them to stand down and follow him. Also, the gimmick with the bad bullets they played out in the show didn't happen in the books.
Rick decides to keep Negan alive to show they are better than him. Carl tries to kill him anyways, but Rick stops him and talks him into sparing him.
I think the dynamic with Carl and Negan worked better in the books- Carl hated Negan and Rick helped him find his way. Another alternative is the show should have changed the way Rick interacted with Negan at the end of their war. Somehow, the show made Negan almost too likeable and too drawn to Carl, wanting ro respect his legacy more than Rick did. So when Carl asked them for peace, it almost played out like Rick disrespected his son's wishes in the way he handled Negan's emotions. Personally, I felt like that piece of things could have been done better.
That said, I assume they had to write Carl out of the show because Chandler Riggs wanted to be done. The writers may have been able to come up with a better way to make his exit more graceful in the aftermath of Rick and Negan's relationship.
I'd rate this book an R for swearing, violence and gore, and adult content.
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