Banned Books discussion

What book has given you the most flack?

We all have people in our lives who challenge our freedom to read. Some of us (speaking for myself here) may have even chided another for their choice in reading material, for various reasons. I think it would be interesting to share with one another the title of book that caused the most controversy in our personal lives, for having read it.

I will begin. My Junior year in High School, I had a major crush on H.P. Lovecraft… and I completely bought into the fabled Necronomicon. I willed it to exist! So you can imagine my elation when I found a badly abused copy of Simon’s: The Necronomicon at my local used book store. I talked the store clerk to go against their policy and hold it for me until I had enough consignment credit to buy the book, which I did a few days later. And then I promptly forgot about it….

…until. Final’s week. Joy. I was in my Drama class, waiting my turn to do a monologue or something similarly redundant. So, I dug through my backpack to find something to occupy my time. Heh. Heh. Yep, so there I am, sitting in the back row of our otherwise dark auditorium, reading spells for keeping the “Ancient Ones” from destroying my world. I was pretty enthralled and didn’t hear my name being called… and before I knew it, she was screaming at me for bringing “demonic literature” into her classroom.

A physical altercation ensued… where upon my high school Drama teacher slapped me! But she did so in front of the entire class of witnesses. It was a huge scandal in my hometown and I had several ignorant people (teens and adults) after me for a while. Ultimately I petitioned for my teacher to be re-instated to her position in the fall, which she was and we had a really great senior year together… but it was a wild ride there for a while. Ahhh…. Good times. :D

Magic: an occult primer, similar thing.
Saw it in a bargain bin and thought the cover looked cool. Left it in a drawer. At school our Religious Education teacher went on a rant one week on the dangers of the black arts, I being cheeky, mentioned I found this at reduced price...he thought I was lying and just "taking the pish" (to use a coloquial term) and went on at length about how these "grimoires" aren't just something you buy as paperback...I think he had been reading too much Dennis Wheatley or Lovecraft.
The next week I brought in the offending paperback to prove the truth and he went all righteous and apoplectic. This resulted in the class actually "ripping the pish" out of him. So no violence or local scandal, merely the ridicule of an adolescent mob.
He was on a looser from the start though...teaching RE in the West of Scotland with all the ingrained generational bigotry must be hard.
I hadn't actually read the book I hasten to add...

Got a hard time from the Tolkien geeks for reading Moorcock, does that count?

Mine was a Steven King book in middle school. I was reading it while the school was having a priest in to bless the construction site for a new building. This was at a required assembly. I refused to stand for the blessing and continued on reading Salem's Lot. ( The fact that I was reading that book during a service upset her even more.) The teacher took away my book and I grabbed it back from her. She grabbed my arm and I told her that if she didn't get her hands off me and give me my book, I would start screaming assault and my mother would have the school sued by the ACLU for violating the separation of church and state. (A required religious service at a public school.) She gave it back but told me I was being disrespectful. I told her that the school was being disrespectful to all non-Christians and to shut up and go away. The thing is, I am a Christian. I just don't believe that religion of any kind belongs in public institutions or settings.

I got flack from my English teacher for reading 1984. He refused to believe that a 12 year old could grasp the implications. (He had no idea of much we discussed everything in our house)
I was an only child who spent most of her time with adults and therefore a little precocious so I was used to meeting with such a reaction from adults. However my mother thought he was accusing me of lying and practically exploded.
It didn't get physical but lets just say it was the start of a very troubled relationship and that teacher never missed an opportunity to belittle me.

The book I had the most trouble with was Forever by Judy Blume. I was in seventh grade when I attempted to read it. Even though I swore that I wasn't reading during class the book was continuously taken away from me. I was told time and time again that it was inappropriate for me to read it during school hours. They objected to me carrying it around at all. I had to replace it three times but I did finally get through it.

Ginger wrote: "The book I had the most trouble with was Forever by Judy Blume. I was in seventh grade when I attempted to read it. Even though I swore that I wasn't reading during class the book was continuously ..."
I wonder what they did with all of the copies? Throw them in the garbage? It's somehow repellent to me that an "educator" would throw away a book.

Shoot, I have a ratty old copy of Pillars of the Earth that NEEDS thrown away and I can't do it. Something about throwing away books is repellant, not just when educators do it. Although that does seem to add to the heinousness of it...

Ginger wrote: "The book I had the most trouble with was Forever by Judy Blume. I was in seventh grade when I attempted to read it. Even though I swore that I wasn't reading during class the book was continuously ..."

Yeah, I was reading Forever in math class, which I guess I should not have been doing (but I hated math, still do). And, the book was taken away not because the teacher found the content inappropriate (I don't even think he knew what the book was about, he was pretty much a one subject math geek), but because I dared to read fiction in class (I have to admit, in hindsight, and having taught myself, I understand why he took the book away, but it shows that his math classes were boring and incomprehensible to those of us who have problems with numbers, I could not understand his teaching method and read Forever so I would not fall asleep).

Satia wrote: "My mother allowed me to read anything I wanted and, when I wanted to see movies that were perhaps too mature for me she would suggest I read the book first. (She made a mistake and took us to see ..."

I always have a book with me. And, when my boyfriend and I go out to dinner or coffee, we usually end up reading part of the time. That often starts some inquiring questions (not altogether friendly all of the time, because we don't just read fiction in public, but books on linguistics, literary theory, history etc. as well, and some people have to make snarky comments at that); we both also have a serious book addiction.

Kristi wrote: "Shoot, I have a ratty old copy of Pillars of the Earth that NEEDS thrown away and I can't do it. Something about throwing away books is repellant, not just when educators do it. Although that doe..."
I have a lot of bad quality 1960s-1970s paperbacks and my new decluttering rule is 'It's falling apart throw it away'.
Some of my paperbacks are so fragile if you touch a page it disintegrates!! But I still find it heart-rending to bin them.

Satia wrote: "I'm desperately trying to reduce my collection and am "forcing" myself to do a couple of things:

1. I have to read three books for every 1 book I buy. this definitely keeps me from acquiring mor..."

OMG Satia! As a bibliophile I'm slightly jeaslous of your grandfather (I assume he made it out OK?)
As a normal human being I'm slightly worried that my home poses a similar hazard, though my books are piled on the dining room table which is much safer!

Esther wrote: I have a lot of bad quality 1960s-1970s paperbacks and my new decluttering rule is 'It's falling apart throw it away'. "

Ahhh some of the old 1960's-1970's paperbacks are the best!! I hate to say it, but I love my old, fragile, worn books much better than the crisp new ones...but shhhh don't let them know. I love them all! I would never be able to get rid of any of them.

Kathleen wrote: "Esther wrote: I have a lot of bad quality 1960s-1970s paperbacks and my new decluttering rule is 'It's falling apart throw it away'. "

Ahhh some of the old 1960's-1970's paperbacks are the best!! ..."

I love my paperbacks but we living a sub-tropical climate which is doing them no good. IT is pretty annoying when you go to turn a page and half of it comes away in your hand and disintegrates! Lots of these paperbacks have half-moons on the page edges from where I turned the page as I was reading.

Satia wrote: "Esther, Yes and no.

And let me interject here that my grandfather was not a part of my life beyond his letters to me. I never met him and, because he was a "good" Catholic, he disowned my mothe..."

Wow! I was also born 'out of wedlock' but despite her initial dismay my Grandma decided to live with us, helping out with finances and playing stay-at-home-mum while my mum worked.
We have nowhere near 3,000 books mainly because we had to sell a lot when we moved country. But we keep acquiring Bibles so people often think we're very religious!!

As a mother, I have given my kids (now almost grown) pretty much cart blanche to read what they want. I have repeatedly gotten "flack" from family members and others about what I "let" my kids read. My mother (who I no longer speak to [she testified against me in court]) was appalled I let my kids read Harry Potter....she was all concerned because it is full of magic and whatever else (I have not read them). She really did not like the fact my daughter read the Twilight Series either.

I am pretty open minded when it comes to reading and would rather have my kids read about something in a book and question it, be appalled by it, learn from it, be intrigued by it..... Reading is one of the most important skills to give a child. Sadly, my kids do not read as much as they used to now that they live with their father. As a matter of fact, my son does not read at all anymore. I just hope one day they will go back to what I taught them and renew their love of reading.

As for me personally catching "flack"....not really. Sometimes my music was a big factor more than books growing up.

jennbunny wrote: "As a mother, I have given my kids (now almost grown) pretty much cart blanche to read what they want. I have repeatedly gotten "flack" from family members and others about what I "let" my kids rea..."

I cannot believe that your mother testified against you in court, Jenn, wow. I did not really get flack from my parents about what I was reading, (and they also did not know much abut English language children's books, I might have gotten more flack, had we remained in Germany) they also seemed more concerned with what music I was listening to, they thought the Beatles were hard rock (they should be glad I was never into heavy metal). On the other hand, I also knew my parents were rather right wing politically, so I basically did not often tell them what I was reading.

Satia wrote: "LMAO! During the first phase of "enough is enough" I started organizing the books and I announced, "Who the needs 20 Bibles? Nobody needs 20 Bibles unless they're a theology student or a priest. ..."

Our older Bibles (the ones at my Mum's house) have gold leafed pages so we want to keep those. Both me and my husband got Bibles during our army wervice so we keep those for sentimental reasons.
But then we had to buy 1 for each child for Bible studies at school and in addition they received Bibles at school ceremonies both in Grade School and Middle School so that is an extra 6 acquired in 6 years!!

jennbunny wrote: "As a mother, I have given my kids (now almost grown) pretty much cart blanche to read what they want. I have repeatedly gotten "flack" from family members and others about what I "let" my kids rea..."

My mother didn't censor my reading much and gave me carte blanche at the library and with her own shelves.
She did give me 'the tone of dissapproval' at some teen romance magazines she found while cleaning which annoyed me as one of her friends had given them to me.
She only dissapproved of a couple of books I read as a teen and when I ignored her and carried on reading she left it at that.
When I was a child she did get flack for some of the TV she let me watch.
With my mother 'educational' was the password.
So Star Trek was in, Six-Million-Dollar man and Wonder Woman was out. All reading was 'educational'.

None, luckily. I learned about banned books when I learned that some books were banned. I don't remember anyone ever questioning a choice I made for my reading, and it turns out I have read many banned books, and did in adolescence and childhood, and some of those were assigned for school classes.

Kristi wrote: "Shoot, I have a ratty old copy of Pillars of the Earth that NEEDS thrown away and I can't do it. Something about throwing away books is repellant, not just when educators do it. Although that doe..."

I couldn't agree more. I had a copy of The Incredible Journey that had two chapter of 18 and 19 and none of the end. I finally had to have someone else through it away because it was of no use but I couldn't do it!

Heck.....I get more flack now from my friends about books I don't read or haven't read. It's always....why don't you read HP or Twilight.....well...because I don't want to that's why. I have WAY too many other books on my plate right now (I am not a big YA fan anyway).

As far as throwing books away....it is a hard thing to do. I try to take care of them best I can so hopefully I won't have to throw any away (although there is one or two....I wish I wouldn't have read and thrown away).

jennbunny wrote: "As far as throwing books away..."

I live a short drive from Charlie Byrne's shop in Galway (http://www.charliebyrne.com/), a grotto of new and second hand books. You can trade in your old books for credit and then leave with more books than you entered with...doesn't really help reduce your library, but keeps it fairly filled with fresh texts.

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "jennbunny wrote: "As far as throwing books away..."

I live a short drive from Charlie Byrne's shop in Galway (http://www.charliebyrne.com/), a grotto of new and second hand books. You can trade ..."

That would be dangerous for me. I hope the shop also has books you can buy without having to trade in your books, even trading in books is a problem (I've actually done that and then realised that I needed the book, so I had to rebuy a copy, duhh).

I have two local used bookstores. I purchase quite a few paperback books from them. I do not trade in; although, they do take trade ins. I just cannot seem to get rid of a book.

Recently I got into an argument with a friend about Damon Galgut's In a Strange Room, which is up for the Man Booker Prize. Something about the experimental style and cryptic sexual relationship at the core of the story really threw her off. I, on the other hand, am intrigued by this set of novellas.... My further musings can be read at my blog at www.the-reading-list.com

Gundula wrote: "Yeah, I was reading Forever in math class..."

Would you have had the same trouble if you were caught working out Pi to the 500th place in an English Lit class?

Old-Barbarossa wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Yeah, I was reading Forever in math class..."

Would you have had the same trouble if you were caught working out Pi to the 500th place in an English Lit class?"

Maybe, but probably not to that same extent. I can understand why the teacher reacted the way he did (and I did apologise to him), but that does not smooth over the fact that he just did not like anyone who was not talented in math. And, because I got great marks in English and French and lousy marks in math, he thought I was just being reticent and rebellious. I could never explain to any of my teachers that I actually had severe problems with math, because my language skills were so good, they just basically thought I was deliberately being lazy and not "applying myself."

As a child nobody cared what I read. When I was 12 my mom handed me Stranger in a Strange Land to read because my father loved it. I've gotten flack from loving it as an adult because my friends are rational, intelligent liberals. I am usually given flack for reading space opera trash or when I don't like a popular book like Catcher in the Rye. I've also been harrassed because I don't think the DaVinci Code was that bad and my MA was in religion and culture and knew all the factual stuff already (as little as there was). Oh and because of my degree, I own only 5 or 6 bibles as well as copies of the Kuran, The Bhagavad Gita, Tao Te Ching, The Book of Mormon, The Tibetan Book of the Dead, The Torah etc. I'm not sure even a seminarian needs that many more Bibles than I have.

Great idea, Shay! I should think about purging my collection again because I'm in a high earthquake zone. When I sold my first house I got rid of 2/3rds of my books. A few years later when I had to pack everything into one of those POD type things, I got rid of another 3/4ths (although it's not as drastic as it sounds because I had accumulated quite a bit more). I need to purge again.

Jennbunny, would you be willing to share what your mother testified against you about?

Sure......20 months ago, my children went to stay with their father for a temporary time frame. He then decided it would be permanent and did not return the children.....As a matter of fact he took them out of state (two states). I was fighting a big custody battle and representing myself (which is not easy). He was trying to make me out to be a bad mother, etc. He actually got everyone in my family (mother, father, sister, grandmother) to testify against me. Now in all actuality only my mother (and my daughter) took the stand (time delays). She stated A LOT of untrue things up on the stand....she even said I was a bad mother because I did not cook Thanksgiving Dinner one year (I had to work AT NIGHT). That was that....I had enough....DONE. I no longer speak to my mother (or anyone in my family).

I eventually decided I had enough of the custody battle as well and since my kids were now 18 and 17...I let them stay with their father. He promised them all this stuff (money can apparently buy happiness) and so that is where they wanted to be.

Satia wrote: "I'm desperately trying to reduce my collection and am "forcing" myself to do a couple of things:

1. I have to read three books for every 1 book I buy. this definitely keeps me from acquiring mor..."

Lol, satia, I actually made that 3-for-1 book rule myself this year! Unfortuantely, I am not sticking to it very well... i think I am currently about 39 books" in the hole"!

When I was ten years old my father told me I could read any book on his shelves. He had quite a varied collection from Plato's Dialogues to Henry Miller. I ended up getting quite an education. My mother didn't know what to do about the questions I asked regarding the Henry Miller novels. She was furious at my father for allowing me to read Plexus, Sexus and Nexus.

I also think that many children and young adults, if not most, are very good at self-regulating or self-censoring. If they start reading a book that is truly inappropriate for them (and I mean for them "specifically" because for others, the same book might be completely appropriate), they will likely find the book boring, frightening and/or incomprehensible; often, they will stop reading the book in question.

When I was about twelve, I asked my mother if I could read some of her German historical romances. I had read all of the German children's literature we had brought over to Canada when we immigrated there, and I wanted some new German literature to read; this was way, way before Amazon.

Well, my mother did not specifically forbid me to read these books, but she did say that she thought I was a bit too young for them. I did not believe her and tried one of the books, but I did not get further than about the second chapter, as I was, indeed, too young for them; they were boring, and the themes way beyond me. So, I simply stopped reading the book and waited until I was about sixteen or seventeen to try historical romances and historical fiction for adults again (it was much more entertaining and enjoyable this time around, and I've never stopped enjoying historical fiction, even though historical romances now rather bore me, you know, books by Victoria Holt, Barbara Cartland and similar authors).

I think we should trust children and young adults more and realise that many of them are more than able to figure out which books are appropriate and acceptable for them to read. Also, what is appropriate or not is very much individual. For example, in some cases, a child might be frightened by the Harry Potter series, while another child will simply adore the books.

I think that a lot of children are not capable of self-regulating, especially when it comes to really scary stuff, but I think most of the kids who are readers are also much better at it. I think the important thing is for parents to know their children and how much supervision they need. I also think many parents are too controlling and restrictive, but it is their right to do that for their own children. It's trying to do it for other children that really angers me.

Kelly wrote: "I think that a lot of children are not capable of self-regulating, especially when it comes to really scary stuff, but I think most of the kids who are readers are also much better at it. I think t..."

I agree with you there, it's one thing to control your own child's reading, but another to try to control everyone's reading (or, other children's reading). However, I also think that in some cases, too much parental control actually backfires and causes children to be rebellious and to deliberately and clandestinely read controversial, problematic books.

Wow, you guys have had quite of lot of negative experiences surrounding one book with other people. I really can't think of any stories like yours in school or such growing up.

I just remembered a book issue that my school had was with The Merchant of Venice when I was 13. I went to a Yeshiva which is a Jewish school. We had religious studies and secular studies. My 7th grade English teacher wanted us to read The Merchant of Venice and discuss the issues raised by the play, but almost all the parents were opposed to us reading this play in school. So I guess they banned The Merchant of Venice. It didn't prevent me from reading it. In fact, I read it as a result of the controversy.

Shomeret wrote: "When I was ten years old my father told me I could read any book on his shelves. He had quite a varied collection from Plato's Dialogues to Henry Miller. I ended up getting quite an education..."

At 10 Miller would have bored me to death, no censorship needed. At 16 however I would have read the smutt and loved it...and now I think I nearly get it all...the smutt's just incidental, what it means isn't though.
You read the trilogy though? Did it make any sense at that age?
I read Ulysses (I think it was banned because of a "hand shandy") at 18 and thought it was shite, I had no idea. Now it melts my head.

I was quoting passages from Miller's trilogy to my mother and asking her to explain them. My mother definitely wasn't up to it and wanted to know why she had to deal with this when it was my father who allowed me to read these books. Let's just say it created some family friction.

Shomeret wrote: "I was quoting passages from Miller's trilogy to my mother and asking her to explain them. My mother definitely wasn't up to it and wanted to know why she had to deal with this when it was my fathe..."

That must have made for some interesting family dinner conversation...

I got busted with a copy of Clan of the Cave Bear by my folks when I was twelve. I probably wouldn't have finished it (it was starting to bore me) but I was forbidden from reading the rest of the series so of course I burned right through.... about three quarters of them. Slowly journeying over the European steps wasn't any more interesting in book four than it was in book two.

I remember when I was younger (maybe 12-15) I was reading a book about a ballerina who develops an eating disorder. I cannot recall the exact title, but I think it was something like The Perfect Girl. My mom made me return it to the library. Honestly, the book was not that good, so I did not really care.

Kristi wrote: "Shoot, I have a ratty old copy of Pillars of the Earth that NEEDS thrown away and I can't do it. Something about throwing away books is repellant, not just when educators do it. Although that doe..."

I had a similar problem until I started donating my books to the local public library. As with everything else related to the arts, libraries are inadequately funded and really need donations (money, books, media). What isn't put on the shelves is stored and sold during an annual fundraiser. It made me feel soooo much better about cleaning out my overstuffed bookshelves to know that my beloved books were being shared with others.

Erin wrote: "Wow, you guys have had quite of lot of negative experiences surrounding one book with other people. I really can't think of any stories like yours in school or such growing up."

Me either. I did an incredible amount of reading -- whatever I could get my hands on -- and, other than reading when I should have been doing other things, I didn't have any problems.

This is not my personal story, but I read it in a blog and wanted to share.

Fatherland is an alternate history/dystopian book in which the Axis won World War II and the Nazis take over. Some editions of the book have the Nazi sign on the cover. This blogger said he was careful not to read this book in public since he was a bald, white man. He's not a neo-Nazi or anything like that, but people would assume and give him trouble over it.

Julie wrote: "This is not my personal story, but I read it in a blog and wanted to share.

Fatherland is an alternate history/dystopian book in which the Axis won World War II and the Nazis take o..."

I was born in Germany, and I would never want to read a book in public, or in private for that matter, that had a Swastika on it, especially if the book is a novel and not historical information (also, a dystopian novel about the Nazis winning WWII does not interest me and makes me feel kind of dirty). And, honestly, could the publishers not have put a different cover on the book?

Swastikas on books are a sensitive issue. As someone of Jewish descent this is a sensitive issue for me as well. Yet I recognize that the swastika wasn't always a Nazi symbol. There are numerous cultures that have used the swastika as a completely different symbol in their religions including Buddhism and certain Native American cultures.

Regardless of the swastika's history or meaning, I would never advocate banning a book of speculative fiction like Fatherland. In fact, it isn't the only alternate history novel with this premise. Jo Walton wrote a series in which the Nazis ruled in continental Europe, but not Britain. These books are also very dystopian. Harry Turtledove also wrote a book on this theme calledIn the Presence of Mine Enemies. These books are actually important because they tell us about a terrible fate that we avoided. I would never advocate banning them.

Shomeret wrote: "Swastikas on books are a sensitive issue. As someone of Jewish descent this is a sensitive issue for me as well. Yet I recognize that the swastika wasn't always a Nazi symbol. There are numerous..."

Fatherland has been on my TBR for a while. I wanted to read it after seeing the tail end of the film which was quite chilling.
The cover art of the Hebrew version doesn't have any swastikas but the back view of someone closely resembling Hitler.
I can understand the reasoning behind using the swastika on the cover but I would use a book jacket if I was reading it in public.

I used to get flack for Harlequin Romances- some people I hung out with thought they were completely stupid and couldn't understand why someone would read such stuff- now I hang out with a different group of people.

I've gotten flack for reading romances, flack for reading science fiction or fantasy and in some cases flack for reading any fiction at all because novels are a waste of time. But none of these people wanted to ban all novels, or ban all the books in the romance, science fiction or fantasy categories. Disapproval is not the same as trying to ban a book.