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tasdisr

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 31, 2007
59
8
I am looking to upgrade from a late 2014 27" iMac to a M2 Pro Mac mini. Is there anything I need to look out for in purchasing a monitor? Budget for the monitor would be around $500. I would like to have built in speakers. A webcam is not really needed.
Thanks.
 

apostolosdt

macrumors 6502
Dec 29, 2021
281
241
Since Minis do not offer a plethora of ports, you might want to consider a monitor with a USB hub port.
 
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deckard666

macrumors 65816
Jan 16, 2007
1,194
1,182
Falmouth
I went from a 1080p monitor to a Lenovo L32p-30 for my new M2 Pro Mini -it has a hub and USB-C connection for the Display - speaker wise I've some v nice studio monitors so never listened to its' one and its annoying that for some reason if i restart my mini I have to disconnect and reconnect the USB C cable for the display to recognise but in all honestly its on 24/7 and its probably more to do with Apple than the Lenovo.

I am very pleased with it but currently on 3008 x 1692 rez as my old mans' eyes cant possibly read 4k !
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
28,751
12,860
The m2pro Mini has SIX USB ports:
- 2 USB3 ("a" type)
- 4 USBc ("c" type)

Having said that, for a display I suggest 27" size, 4k. Numerous choices available at and below your price point.

I WOULD NOT depend on "display speakers" for GOOD sound from ANY display.
Buy standalone speakers. Even the cheaper ones will be better.
 
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tasdisr

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 31, 2007
59
8
I guess where I get confused is when I read about scaling problems with a 4k display. I will admit the whole scaling thing confuses me.
 
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icanhazmac

Contributor
Apr 11, 2018
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I guess where I get confused is when I read about scaling problems with a 4k display. I will admit the whole scaling thing confuses me.

My 4ks display as 1080 or half its native resolution, makes for higher detail and a larger UI. 5ks do the same but act like a 1440. I believe where you get into trouble is trying for non-native resolutions, others can probably describe this better.
 
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tasdisr

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 31, 2007
59
8
The m2pro Mini has SIX USB ports:
- 2 USB3 ("a" type)
- 4 USBc ("c" type)

Having said that, for a display I suggest 27" size, 4k. Numerous choices available at and below your price point.

I WOULD NOT depend on "display speakers" for GOOD sound from ANY display.
Buy standalone speakers. Even the cheaper ones will be better.2
My 4ks display as 1080 or half its native resolution, makes for higher detail and a larger UI. 5ks do the same but act like a 1440. I believe where you get into trouble is trying for non-native resolutions, others can probably describe this better.
I have been looking at a couple of BenQ models.


 

JensenKA

macrumors member
Sep 11, 2023
50
63
I love my Gigabyte M27QP, though I bought it for its built-in KVM functionality.

Consider the M27U if you're looking for 4K. It's $450 at Amazon right now.

 
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bradman83

macrumors 65816
Oct 29, 2020
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I have dual 27" Dell 4k monitors (U2723QE) and really like them, though they're targeted more at laptop users since they offer USB-C power delivery and have built in ethernet (neither of which you'd need sine the Mini has its own ethernet and power supply).

Nonetheless give it a look, it's on sale at Best Buy and other places for less than $500. The silver and black color scheme goes nicely with Apple's silver finish too.
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,692
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I guess where I get confused is when I read about scaling problems with a 4k display. I will admit the whole scaling thing confuses me.
That's because it is confusing (even down to which modes are actually "scaled") - and somewhat subjective as to what people consider a problem.

The important thing is that, with a 4k screen, "looks like 1920x1080" mode is full, artefact-free 4k but with double-sized (but full 4k resolution) icons/widgets/system text - which look a bit on the large side on a 27" or larger screen - while "looks like 2560x1440" is actually a 5k image downsampled to 4k, and shows far more detail than an actual 1440p screen could, but with a slight loss of sharpness compared to a 5k screen.

Ultimately, a 5k display (that is 5120x2880) is better than 4k (3840x2160) but costs 2-3 times as much and gives you very little choice of displays - if you can afford a Studio display (plus extra for the height-adjustable stand) by all means go for it, but 4k is usually a very good compromise - and all-round better than a "full HD" screen.

The subjective bits are:
(a) whether the artefacts in scaled mode - such as a very slight shimmer when you move or scroll images with single-pixel detains - will make your eyes bleed, or if they're invisible at normal viewing distances and you'll only notice them if you climb up on the desk with a loupe and do A/B comparisons with a Pro XDR. I'd vote for the latter -
(b) whether "looks like 1920x1080" - which gives you full 4k resolution - makes the UI unusably large, or if its actually preferable to the (rather small) UI on a 27" iMac. I'd say it is completely usable, but not too efficient on screen "real estate". Depends a bit on the app and whether you use it full screened - a lot of cross-platform apps are designed with 1080p screens in mind anyway. I'd also point out that you can switch modes in a few seconds if you're doing something that gets affected by scaling,
 

tasdisr

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 31, 2007
59
8
That's because it is confusing (even down to which modes are actually "scaled") - and somewhat subjective as to what people consider a problem.

The important thing is that, with a 4k screen, "looks like 1920x1080" mode is full, artefact-free 4k but with double-sized (but full 4k resolution) icons/widgets/system text - which look a bit on the large side on a 27" or larger screen - while "looks like 2560x1440" is actually a 5k image downsampled to 4k, and shows far more detail than an actual 1440p screen could, but with a slight loss of sharpness compared to a 5k screen.

Ultimately, a 5k display (that is 5120x2880) is better than 4k (3840x2160) but costs 2-3 times as much and gives you very little choice of displays - if you can afford a Studio display (plus extra for the height-adjustable stand) by all means go for it, but 4k is usually a very good compromise - and all-round better than a "full HD" screen.

The subjective bits are:
(a) whether the artefacts in scaled mode - such as a very slight shimmer when you move or scroll images with single-pixel detains - will make your eyes bleed, or if they're invisible at normal viewing distances and you'll only notice them if you climb up on the desk with a loupe and do A/B comparisons with a Pro XDR. I'd vote for the latter -
(b) whether "looks like 1920x1080" - which gives you full 4k resolution - makes the UI unusably large, or if its actually preferable to the (rather small) UI on a 27" iMac. I'd say it is completely usable, but not too efficient on screen "real estate". Depends a bit on the app and whether you use it full screened - a lot of cross-platform apps are designed with 1080p screens in mind anyway. I'd also point out that you can switch modes in a few seconds if you're doing something that gets affected by scaling,
Thanks! This does help some. Would a gaming monitor be a good choice because the refresh rate and the fact it can have higher sustained brightnes though only at SDR?
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,692
7,894
Thanks! This does help some. Would a gaming monitor be a good choice because the refresh rate and the fact it can have higher sustained brightnes though only at SDR?

I don't see any reason why a 4k UHD gaming monitor wouldn't be a good choice, and there's a lot of them around, but just check that they have at least 2160 pixel vertical resolution (4k/5k refers to the horizontal pixels so some "5k ultrawide" displays are only 1080p vertically and won't be "retina").

IMHO I don't see refresh rate over 60Hz as a priority for most computing purposes unless you have a specific need (e.g. gaming or creating high frame-rate content).

I'm not sure why you need higher sustained brightness without HDR/local dimming and a supply of HDR content. Most 4k screens are plenty bright enough to give you eyestrain at full brightness. There's also OLED displays which look pretty stunning - but I'd check up to find out whether they're susceptible to burn-in.

Sad truth is we were all spoiled by the 5k iMac, which gave us a $1000 screen in a $1800 computer, and I'm not sure how Apple - not known for their bargain prices - ever pulled that off. Even a 4k screen is going to come second to the iMac display - I think it's an acceptable compromise given the price and other "features" of the Studio Display, but a compromise it is.

FWIW: on my Mac Studio I have a pair of Huawei MateView 28.2" 4k+ displays (3:2 ratio) which I'd love to recommend - except they were always hard to find in the US (because Huawei) and it now looks like they're generally like hen's teeth everywhere. No, they don't have the punch of my old iMac, but I find them more suited to my needs and you could get three of them for less than a single Studio Display. The world needs more 3:2 options: it's like a 4k display with a couple of inches extra vertical screen space. Amongst other things, "looks like 1920x1080" mode becomes "looks like 1920x1280" mode which nicely compensates for the larger toolbars/menu/dock you get in that mode.

Only snag is, the speakers are awful - no better than the internal speaker in the Mac Studio (which isn't great) - and I suspect you'll find that with most display speakers short of.a Studio Display.
 

tasdisr

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 31, 2007
59
8
Sad truth is we were all spoiled by the 5k iMac, which gave us a $1000 screen in a $1800 computer, and I'm not sure how Apple - not known for their bargain prices - ever pulled that off. Even a 4k screen is going to come second to the iMac display - I think it's an acceptable compromise given the price and other "features" of the Studio Display, but a compromise it is.
I think you are 100% right! The gaming monitor is just something that a salesperson suggested along with the BenQ monitors. I have a feeling the BenQ PD2705U, Asus ProArt PA279CRV would work fine for my needs. The only gaming monitor I checked out was the Gigabyte M27U.
 

colodane

macrumors 65816
Nov 11, 2012
1,039
476
Colorado
Thanks! This does help some. Would a gaming monitor be a good choice because the refresh rate and the fact it can have higher sustained brightnes though only at SDR?

Refresh rate and brightness would be far down the list of attributes I'd be looking in an office display.

Most of us do not do gaming, so refresh rate is not a concern. And the lighting in an office environment is controlled. I never have my monitor set above 30% brightness.

What I do want is Resolution and superb static text and graphics display along with ergonomics and interconnect flexibility.

Sadly, the $1700 Studio Display is the best option right now. I'm still hoping that Apple will come out with a 24 inch version at a lower price point. After all, they do have a high volume pipeline for that superb panel.
 
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tasdisr

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 31, 2007
59
8
Refresh rate and brightness would be far down the list of attributes I'd be looking in an office display.

Most of us do not do gaming, so refresh rate is not a concern. And the lighting in an office environment is controlled. I never have my monitor set above 30% brightness.

What I do want is Resolution and superb static text and graphics display along with ergonomics and interconnect flexibility.

Sadly, the $1700 Studio Display is the best option right now. I'm still hoping that Apple will come out with a 24 inch version at a lower price point. After all, they do have a high volume pipeline for that superb panel.
That is part of my problem. I want to stick with a 27" monitor like my current iMac has but cannot justify $1700 for a monitor.
 

dandeco

macrumors 65816
Dec 5, 2008
1,219
1,023
Brockton, MA
Thanks, I have been looking at this BenQ 27" monitor.

Hey, I think I now know what monitor I may eventually replace my older Apple Thunderbolt Display with! I can even use it with my M1 MacBook Air before I eventually get a new pro-level Mac Mini.
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,692
7,894
Goto Costco and get a 55" tv, built-in speakers.
...and enjoy looking at those huge blocky pixels!

Seriously - it's not an entirely bad idea, but there are swings and roundabouts. If you use it at a typical "arm's length" distance, the UI in 1:1 "looks like 3840x2160 because it is" mode will be very usable, you'll get ridiculous screen real estate and you can stop fretting about scaled modes but you will definitely be able to see pixels. If you move it twice as far away to get it past the "retina" distance so you can't see pixels (a) it's gonna fall off the end of your desk and (b) you'll probably be back to using scaled modes so you can read the UI (your eyesight may vary).

Aside:
"Retina" is an Apple trademark that they can apply to taste, but it does have some hand-wave-y basis in reality - the resolving power of the typical human eye is about 1 arc minute or 0.0003 radians - which is the basis of the test for 20/20 vision. That's an angular measurement, which means the size of what you want to see divided by the viewing distance*. So to get the minimum pixels size for a "retina" display you have to make an assumption about the typical viewing distance, divide the pixel size by that, and see if it's under 0.0003. So, for an iPhone that you typically hold about 10-12" away from your face, it works out that the minimum pixel size is between 1/333"and 1/277" - or about 300 ppi.

Hence, once the iPhone hit over 300ppi, the "retina display" was born - although the idea actually dates at least back to the 1980s when Apple released the LaserWriter which had a resolution of 300dpi (and people typically read A4 printed pages from 10-12"...)

Once you have "300ppi at about 1' = retina" then it's simple: double the distance, halve the minimum PPI. A 27" 4k UHD screen works out at about 160 PPI and you probably view it from about 2' away - at that distance anything over 150ppi is "retina" so you're good. That 55" TV is only going to be about 80 ppi, so you'll have to view it from 4' away to get "retina". Apple's 5k and 6k displays at 220 ppi are very comfortably into the "retina" zone.

But, that is all very very very hand-wavy: 20/20 vision is typical - not best, not minimum and many people can do better or worse... and the human eye isn't a simple pinhole camera with the same angular resolution at any distance, not to mention all sorts of weird perceptual issues depending on what it is you're trying to evolve, so it's all very, very ball-park and "your mileage may vary".

(* pedant note - that assumes the viewing distance is much greater than the size, but far worse crimes against precision are being committed here)
 

amancalledsun

macrumors member
Feb 28, 2006
50
23
I have dual 27" Dell 4k monitors (U2723QE) and really like them, though they're targeted more at laptop users since they offer USB-C power delivery and have built in ethernet (neither of which you'd need sine the Mini has its own ethernet and power supply).

Nonetheless give it a look, it's on sale at Best Buy and other places for less than $500. The silver and black color scheme goes nicely with Apple's silver finish too.
I use a U3223QE (the 32" version of the U2723QE) with an M2 Pro Mini and it's fantastic. The USB-C power delivery is handy for the times that I want to plug in my MacBook Pro as well and can easily switch between the two computers connected to the same display. Admittedly I have the resolution set fairly high at 3360x1890 so I can get more screen real estate for things like tracking and mixing in Logic Pro. The scaling works fine for me but YMMV. The only advice I would offer is that for this monitor (both the 27" and the 32") you should use USB-C to connect it to the Mini even if you don't need the power delivery. As I have both the Mini and MBP connected simultaneously I use a USB-C to DP cable on the Mini and have to use a separate upstream USB-C to USB-C connection for the hub to function. The HDMI connection from the Mini did not give me enough flexibility with resolutions to drive the display properly. This leaves me with 2 USB-C/TB4 ports still available on the Mini itself as well as the two USB-A ports.
 

tasdisr

macrumors member
Original poster
Jul 31, 2007
59
8

JuicyGoomba

macrumors regular
May 20, 2021
109
334
Contrary to what many are saying here, refresh rate is very important for comfort, everything else is a bonus.

Dell are literally fitting their UltraSharp line with 120hz displays now because of this. It's much nicer on the eyes, 60hz is eyeball cancer.

It isn't a gaming feature. High refresh rates are the future of computing, and people arguing in favour of 60hz on the internet generally seem to be basing this on their own bias (often due to already spending $$$ on an outdated 60hz monitor already).

Most games on iPhone and iPad run at 60hz, so why do the Pro models have 120hz screens? Oh yeah, comfort. The smoother the display, the less jarring it is to your eyes.

You also benefit massively from the huge reduction in input lag. I spend 80% of my time with Chrome & Sheets open during the day for work, yet being on 165hz helps a ton with things like accuracy when selecting text in a document or quickly switching tabs. Yes, I can get used to the cursor delay at 60hz, of course I can. My point is, why spend $500 on a 4k monitor just for the sake of having 4k? A resolution that MacOS sucks at handling unless you're at around 24". You could spend less than half that amount, have almost triple the refresh rate, have excellent colour accuracy, but "only" 1440p (pro tip, use BetterDisplay and scale a couple pixels lower than 1440p, you'll have HiDPI mode enabled and text will be noice).

I get it, Macrumors forums aren't really great for more tech inclined suggestions for products to buy. From the years of being here, it seems to be a case of someone has been suggested an item by Amazon, and then they repost it in threads like these claiming it to be the holy grail of Mac displays.

Dell G2724D is regularly on sale for under $200, and it's currently the best 165hz 1440p monitor you can buy. Even has a higher native contrast ratio that most IPS monitors lack, in addition to having pretty much the best motion handling and response times you'll get outside of TN and OLED. Again, these are always marketed as "gaming" features, but seeing a video or even scrolling a web page with ZERO ghosting is a completely different world to the trash displays Apple include on their "pro" laptops and iMacs. In 2024 you should not be seeing a long streaky line behind your mouse cursor when you move it.


USB hubs from the likes of UGreen and Anker are very easy to come by and cheap enough if you need them, plenty of options there with KVM functionality too. It's not hard. You also have a couple of HDMI ports in there that support the latest features from PS5/Xbox if you ever need to use it for gaming too, which is rare even on higher end monitors.
 
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